Ghastly Abu Ghraib photos at The Memory Hole (via The Yin Blog).
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by Michael Froomkin
Laurie Silvers & Mitchell Rubenstein Distinguished Professor of Law
University of Miami School of Law
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I saw the Abu Ghraib pictures at http://www.killermania.com/prison.htm and I did not feel any sympathy of the beating and humiliation for the prisoners. A little dog bite does not compare to a gang rape beating in a US penetentiary, criminals are treated far worst by immates.
Let’s not forget about the behadings of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg “tis for tat” not exactly a journalist,contractor and the 3,000 citizens that were killed on 9/11.
The soldiers accused of a abuse are American “war” heroes, brave men and women that defend modern civilization, I don’t think any of us would want our children’s children living the 21st century in fear from religious extremists. Sometimes you have to do bad to do good.
That’s why is so important to re-elect President Bush so he can lead our military and destroy the vermin that use God as their shield. Save our freedom vote for W.
I saw the Abu Ghraib pictures at http://www.killermania.com/prison.htm and I did not feel any sympathy of the beating and humiliation for the prisoners. A little dog bite does not compare to a gang rape beating in a US penetentiary, criminals are treated far worst by immates.
Let’s not forget about the behadings of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg “tis for tat” not exactly a journalist,contractor and the 3,000 citizens that were killed on 9/11.
The soldiers accused of a abuse are American “war” heroes, brave men and women that defend modern civilization, I don’t think any of us would want our children’s children living the 21st century in fear from religious extremists. Sometimes you have to do bad to do good.
That’s why is so important to re-elect President Bush so he can lead our military and destroy the vermin that use God as their shield. Save our freedom vote for W.
I saw the Abu Ghraib pictures at http://www.killermania.com/prison.htm and I did not feel any sympathy of the beating and humiliation for the prisoners. A little dog bite does not compare to a gang rape beating in a US penetentiary, criminals are treated far worst by immates.
Let’s not forget about the behadings of Daniel Pearl and Nick Berg “tis for tat” not exactly a journalist,contractor and the 3,000 citizens that were killed on 9/11.
The soldiers accused of a abuse are American “war” heroes, brave men and women that defend modern civilization, I don’t think any of us would want our children’s children living the 21st century in fear from religious extremists. Sometimes you have to do bad to do good. That’s why is so important to re-elect president Bush. Save our freedom vote for W.
I understand what you’re saying Mathew, but I think you’re missing a few important points.
First, most of the Iraqis subjected to the treatment at Abu Ghraib were not guilty of anything. To punish innocent people in retaliation for one’s own losses may be emotionally gratifying but is unjust and unAmerican.
Second, the Iraqis had nothing to do with 9/11, according to the Congressional 9/11 commission. At the very least, Bush/Cheney have yet to offer any actual evidence apart from their word that the Iraqis had a share in Al Qaida’s plot. Since the burden of proof is on them and they haven’t produced any, It is a therefore a falsehood to suggest otherwise at this late date.
Third, Bush’s complicity in “allowing” our troops to sic dogs on detainees, rape them (and their children and spouses), and otherwise humiliate and terrorize them is in fact an aid and comfort to the enemy. Al Qaida has said all along that this is what the US is all about, and even members of the Iraqi olympic soccer team said they’d be fighting the Americans if it weren’t for Athens. What good is it to do something that swells the ranks of those who want to kill the soldiers who you clearly honor.
Finally, I’ve seen little evidence that Bush even knows what the word “freedom” means. The Patriot Act, the memos authorizing Bush kingly powers, his abuse of basic rights of our own citizens, all give government incredible control over our lives. Even our local neocon has admitted in other posts that neocons want to limit our rights, so a vote for W ain’t a vote for freedom.
These are detainees.The Administrtaion comes on and says they are enemy combatants- ith no uniforms? And 70% have ben relased after kangaroo court hearings?
If you don’t care what happens to tehm, think of what will happne to American tropps when cpatured.WE have opened the way fro them to be tortured and we have no longer a right to object
Moreover, by torturing them, we dirty the name of every WWII ant-Nazi undeground and captured allied soldier who withstood Nazi toruture. We are now implitly saying it was ok for teh Nazis to torture them.
It is FUNDAMENTAL to American principles that persons have right to: Quick trial.Reprenstation by attorney. Open trial. To know right away what they ar charged with. ALL men are created equal and endowed with certain unalienable rights. Not just Americans.That is what the American Revolution was fought for. Washington,Jefferson, et all are weeping in their graves.The British tortured and starved US Revolutionry War prisoners because they thought of them as the Adminsitration thinsk of cpatured Irais.
I live near the site of the prisonships where thosuands of US Revolutionary war US soldiers wee msitreated to death by the British
i think that this subjct is really pointless all the people of the worl do is argue n fight over the matters but what they need to do is come together and solve them these people would not be dieing if they did some thing about it instaid of argueing. i no it is easer said then done but if they dont try do some thing then the lifes of the hostages have already been lost nd its not fair on their families and friends to stand back and watch them get killed
I saw the picture of abu Grahib prisoners and the first thing that come to me to say is SHAME ONN ALL THOSE MAN AND WOMEN WHO NPRETENDING TO DEFEND THE GOOD VALUES OF AMERICAN FREEDOM OR ASHAMING AMERICA AND ITS FREEDOM ACROSS THE WORLD….DOING WHAT THEY DID IN ABU GRAHIB PRISON THEY ARE GOING AGAINST EVERY VALUE THE FOUNDING FATHERS STOOD FOR AND FOUGHT FOR…AND AGAINST EVERY RULE OF HUMANITY THAT THE AMERICAN CITIZENS HAVE STOOD FOR AS AN EXAMPLE THORUGH OUT HISTORY…..THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO TREAT AMERICA LIKE A HERO COUNTRY WHO STANDS FOR ALL THAT IS GODLY AND GOOD…BUT THE ABU GRAHIB PRISONER ABUSE IS A SHAME TO GOD AND JESUS AND NOBODY THAT DID THAT SHOULD CLAIM TO BE A CHRISTIAN OR A GODLY MAN…SO PLEASE…BIBLE PREACHES FORGIVENESS NOT PUNISHMENT…AND THAT IS WHY PEOPLE LIKE THOSE WHO ABUSED THOSE PRISONERS ARE NOT AMERICA’S HEROES BUT AMERICA’S SHAME AND SHOULD BE CASTIGATED FOR WHAT THEY DID…MURDERERS SHOULD BE PUT IN FORNT OF JUSTICE AND NOT TORTURED TO DEATH….THAT IS WHY CIVILIZED COURTS EXIST….
GOD IS LOVING BUT ALSO PUNISHING TO ANYONE THAT GIVES HIMSELF OR HERSELF THE RIGHT TO PLAY GOD….AND THOSE WHO TORTURED THOSE PRISONERS WITHOUT GIVING THEM THE CHANCE TO A FAIR TRIAL WILL BE HARSHELY CONDEMNED…BECAUSE GOD IS JUST….
MAY GOD FRGIVE THEM….AND MAY ANY AMERICAN HERO NOT BE ANOTHER PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A MURDERER BUT THE THE LIFE SAVERS WHO EVERYONE ADORS.
I dont know what i most say.mr.bush,thank u.your democracy is torture the naked menANDwomen on that fucking prison.u verify that u are patriot!yeah,fuck american honor and pomp.shame to be an american!i have a lot of muslems friend and now they all dont want see me a second.because i am a beast,nightmare and satan,and at last an american.one day we are heroes world and now…every value,every value that we fought in our history,terminate by 30 fucking troop.when people of the word think about america,they dont remmember Brad pitt,clinteastwood or Metallica!they know us by abughraib and torture.my god!they see that 2 fuckin female army(if i seen them one day,i fuck them1000000000…..)and think all the american lady’s like that!one day we never believe that the women can enter to the army and now…and the iraqi’s,i going mad when i think that they have family,personal life and parent.and maybe that hooded men thinking about them,they childhood and they sweet memory’s when the troops torture them.must vote carry and take bush and that troops to thy’re GRAVE…
I just saw the photos of abu Grahib prisoners. I wonder: what kind of democracy or freedom is this? who gave the US the right to invade Iraq and carry out such terrible acts? . While taking a look at these photos, I was trying to understand what is crossing most of american people’s minds. how can they be so irresponsible to allow someone like W. Bush to remain as president of the United States. unfortunely, we must be honest, most of american people live in a bubble. let me tell you, when you begin to think, as a citizen of a powerful nation, that the way you live is the best and that your point of views are absolute truths; then you begin to have a problem. just because the US has a big army with high technology and it is one of the most powerful countries economically speaking, this does not mean that you have the right to do as you please with the rest of the world.
all I can tell the people from the Unites States, specially to young people, is that they should inform themselves about the real history and the role played by the Department of Defense of your nation
in the lives and decision of other countries, specially in latinamerica. finally, one last recommnedation: travel. please take your time to visit other countries. don’t stay in the bubble. there is a world outside. you are not the only ones living on this planet.
thank you.
All i can tell everybody that a SOLDIER always fight for their country. He must be respected instead of behaving that badly as shown Abu Ghraib prison. You should better shoot them instead of doing this bad stuff to SOLDIERS.
Thank You.
Boris:
Many people voted for Bush without having a clear idea of what it is happening. when someone only pays attention to what they watch on cnn or any other news channel form the US, there is the danger of only perceiving a manipulated information about what is happening in the world or outside of the United States. American citizens must be more critical concerning the information the receive from the media. How can you decide who is the best leader for your nation, having as a basis the skills of this person to go to war? you can not obviate some aspects like the fact that poor is becoming poorer and the rich becoming richer. how many poor people do you have in the States? Did you know that there is a law that fobbids any american citizen to buy and smoke a cuban cigar either inside or outside of the country? well, this is really a good example of what a democratic nation where everybody is free. the president speaks about liberating Cuba, for example. he says Castro is evil and many other things. why do people still confuse Castro with the Cuban revolution? let me tell you Castro is not the revolution, the cuban people made the revolution. but the question is: Can we really understand that a nation has something called self-determination to choose the way they want to live their lives? Can we really understand that one man is not able to do anything if he does not have the people’s support? Are we going to say that Hitler was a kind of magician that spellbound germans to do his will? . Any person who thinks like this shoul reconsider that position. No friends, Hitler got the power because the mayority of german people agreed with his ideas. Mr. DANIEL JONAH GOLDHAGEN in his book :”Hitler’s Willing Executioners : Ordinary Germans and
the Holocaust” makes clear that germans knew very well what was going on. I mention all this because you can not identify or blame Bush completely of what it is happening in Irap right now. Bush is just the leading figure. there is a bunch of people supporting him and giving him ideas. I would like to recommned all the people that read this to investigate, to go into histoy. track down all the intervantions made by the Department of Defense of the United States in different parts of the world. just to mention some: in CHile, Nicaragua these are the most dramatic cases. but the interventions took place in most of the latinamerican countries. in the case of Latinamerica, all the XXth century was a complete mess due to the interventions of the United States, having the cia as the principal executioners of those interventions. the Us was never interested in the wellbeing of latinamerican nations. that is why I tell you to check history, real history. the Us always had and has a geopolitical interest in other regions. they supported dictatorships in CHile and Nicaragua, again these ar the most dramatic cases. but this does not mean that the other were nicer. the Us never cared for supporting good democracies in latinamerica. their only interest was to extract as many goods as possible from these poor sub-developed countries, even if this impplied to support a dictator that made suffer his people. now, Do you want me to believe that they have become good and they really want to help and support democracies in places where nobody called them? give a break! Was Iraq a real threat for the Us?
when I think about this history I wonder : What danger can Cuba represent for US? Cuba is a surviving country. Why does the Us need to inflict an embargo, a drastic measure that is only applied in war times, to Cuba. where is the threat? Of course, they say that they want to free cuba, bring democracy to Cuba. Who says that the democracy that you have is the best in the world. I can not say that I live in the best of places. How could I be so arrogant to think that the rest of the world has to live like I do? How can you achieve peace through war? American People, specially young people, should open their eyes and realize that not everything that you receive from the media is edible. there isa world outside and that world has a history too. the funny thing is that the nation that has the power always appears as the best in histoy, but the ones that are trying to grow and to decide how to live their lives will be in the wrong side in histoy. it is our task to change this. we can not continue ignoring the facts and histoy like if there was nothing to learn from it.
finally, I just want to recommend some authors that you can read to discover more about the reality of the world in which we are living today.
Edward Said
DANIEL JONAH GOLDHAGEN
Noam Chomsky
Eric Howsband
also, I recommend you to read books by latinamerican authors. believe me they have much to say. for example:
Josè Martì
Edwardo Galeano
Octavio Paz.
well, there are many others, read them.
also, you can visit a very interesting website where you are going to find lots of information concerning these topics. most of the articles are in spanish but certainly you are going to find in English. this website is a different option that you can choose istead of remaing with cnn or any other.
visit this place: http://www.rebelion.org
thank you.
well….
all i’d say here is that the dominion of brutality and agression of peace and simplicity is but temporal it doesnt really last for long -so that one in his right wit would ask where is the slave trade, the apartheid and all other humanly oppressive ideas once sanctioned by the west ?
it doesnt last forver….
we in Africa pity the western public who cannot discern between falsehood/hyper-media/propaganda and the truth …
the USA has a lenghty record of oppression that doesnt make it right
the koreans have got WMD’S yet they are saints
but one poor -wrecked country (IRAQ) is seen as having a stockpile of it
yet having it is actually not a crime – that they are muslims , that is the crime
famine wridden/ and war wrecked afghanistan has to pay for the 9/11 hoax
well as a nigerian i am a silent observer .. but i am too sure that if a man doesnt go to war , he shall one day be greeted with war (i strongly believe that the air raidind and bombing would soon come ), but why – nigeria is a focal point for muslims
AHMED , Nigeria